2020 Coonhound Program Rule Changes [UKC Hunting Ops]

2020 Coonhound Program Rule Changes [UKC Hunting Ops]

[duck calls] [shotgun sounds] – Hey, everybody, this is Trevor Wade with
the United Kennel Club, I’m the Coonhound Program Manager here and I have Allen,
Gingerich with me, the Director of Hunting Ops, and we’re going to be discussing the
rule changes coming for the Coonhound Program here for 2020. – The rule changes happen every three years at United Kennel Club. So the way that works is
hunters sending their proposals every three years on rules they’d like to see
changed. They are then taken to Autumn Oaks to
the Breed Association. This last Autumn Oaks, they voted on these proposals and
so we’re going to talk about the ones that they adopted and those are this
year: change to tree closing time; tree countdown; a squalling rule change; silent
on track rules; point values in your strike and tree column; a slight change
to the babbling rule. The big one is the leash lock rule, that’s going to be a big
one for us. Running, treeing, or molesting off game, a slight change there, and then also, a
slight change in dogs that aren’t declared struck on or before the third
mark, as well as calling the wrong dog. So, with that said, let’s get started! – Okay, in this clip, we’re going to be discussing the Tree Close Time. The tree is going to
be closing at three minutes after the first dog is declared treed, or tree is
closed as soon as all dogs are declared treed, whether they’re split or
treed together. – One other thing that will come into play here is when you have one
dog, whether you start with one dog in the cast, or there’s one dog remaining in
the cast, that dog must hold its tree for three minutes. The only exception to
that is at the end of the hunt, as soon as hunt time expires, then you can go
right in and handle that dog that has been declared treed. – Right, and be sure to keep rule 11(a) in mind. We don’t need you waiting around the full three
minutes or wait for the three minutes to expire at the start end of the tree. You
can start cutting the distance as soon as the dogs took their tree and try to
be there when the 30 minutes is up. – So that also means you’re going to be
walking a couple of minutes sooner than you might have under the five-minute rule,
so that will, in fact, speed up the pace of the hunt. One thing that’s very
important along with that is you might have some older hunters in the cast that
aren’t- can’t walk as fast. And I have a lot of our younger hunters who want to
run the trees. It is the judge’s responsibility to maintain a pace that is attainable by all the members of the cast. That’s very important for judges to
remember and note that it is their responsibility to maintain that pace
that is attainable by everybody in the cast. – One thing that’s kind of separate
from that is that we’re gonna keep the stationary time at five minutes moving
forward. – Yeah, so this one’s fairly simple. Everything is just from five minutes to three minutes. One we didn’t really see coming but the Rules Committee passed it, so… – That blindsided us a little bit. – Yeah, so that’ll be interesting.
One thing that they had in mind is a shorter hunt time – Sure.
– So that’s why they also wanted to shorten up the tree time. So there you go! – Alright, in this
video we’re going to be discussing the newly implemented tree countdown.
– Oh boy, this is a big one!
– It’s a big one! Any dog that is declared treed two minutes after
the first dog was declared treed will be assigned 25 points on that tree. Just
make sure that you’re aware: second and third tree are still available within
those first two minutes, so you can still get 75 and 50 tree points if you’re
treed in the two minutes. – This was a big one for us, in a matter of fact, this
has been on the proposal for the last four or five or six rule changes. It
never passed until this year, it finally did pass. – 4 to 3!
– 4 to 3, yeah, it barely did. And I know there’s a lot of hunters really excited about this one that do, in fact,
like this change here. One other thing to keep in mind: Rule 4(h)
will also be changed to read, “Dogs treeing but not declared tree when judge arrives
will be assigned in minus twenty five tree points on off game or a slick tree. Dog shut out on strike, on slip tree, or off game will receive minus tree points
only.” What that means- we used to have a rule that says dog treeing but not
declare treed when the judge arrived would get next available position. Next
available in this case, after two minutes, is not always 25. As far as Champion
Divisions, when it comes to off game, that obviously doesn’t change. Those dogs are
still scratched if it’s off game. One of the things I’d like to point out, I see
it happening quite a bit, and a lot of times, it’s guys coming over from other
registries, that have a dog in there treeing but they don’t tree it. I can tell you
guys, in UKC, there is nothing to gain and you have everything to lose
to not declare your dog treed. With this one, I think this is going to be
well-received, and we had these in the Super Slams that we tried for the
last couple years, and we put it in for special rules for that, and the guys
really liked it. I don’t see any problems with this one of them. – Okay, the next topics we’re going to discuss is going to be the squalling at the tree rule and
the silent on track rule, and we’ll start out with the squalling rule. We’re
actually going to eliminate Rule 6(u) and allow squalling during all of shine
time. So with the elimination of this rule, handlers are now able to squall, pull
vines, tap trees, etc. for the duration of shine time, regardless if one of the dogs
in the cast are different. – The United Kennel Club is one of the few registries
that actually had a rule like this in place where you couldn’t squall for
period of shine time. Used to be in the first seven minutes, you could not squall, and that was the case for a long time and let’s just talk about, just for a second,
why that rule was implemented back in the old days. It was it was put in place
to not penalize a dog for coming in after you have arrived and they
always felt like it would entice a dog to come in. In 2015, they changed this
rule from seven minutes down to two minutes so in the last three years we’ve
used this two minutes and almost became a rule that is, “Why do we even have this?”
And a lot of owners feel this way, so this year, the Rules Committee did, in
fact, pass it. So I think the hunters are gonna love this change. You can now
squall as soon as you start treeing time. You’ll no longer hear of guys getting
scratched that forgot, that blew their squalor before that two minutes was up.
– They’re gonna have to come up with a different excuse there.
– This one will be a good one. – And then the next one we’re talking about is the silent on track rule, and that we’re
going to be eliminating Rule 6(e): “If dog is continuously silent on track.” And just
keep in mind that a silent dog might still be declared struck before it can be treed.
– This is one there’s been a lot of discussion on, and probably some
negative discussion, on why we would get rid of this. The other part of that
is probably how many people have actually enforced- how many judges
actually enforce this, or can enforce it? It is a tough one to enforce, and long
story short, the one thing is very important again: just because a dog may
not have open on track, the dog must still be declared struck before it can
be declared treed. – In this next clip, we’re going to be discussing the rule
change regarding running, treeing, or molesting off game. The rule has been
changed to state: “Dogs must be seen running, treeing, or molesting off game.”
The only addition to the current rule is the word “seen” that’s been added in this case.
– In the past, judges were instructed to make the call if they felt a dog was
running deer, for instance, off game. A lot of times, a lot of experienced houndsmen will tell you if they can easily tell if your dog is running, doesn’t matter if it’s their dog or somebody else’s dog, is
running a deer out of the country. We used to say to make that judgment call
and make the call, but now with this change they have to see it, so that
judgment doesn’t even apply anymore. They have to see the off game
in order to scratch any dog. – Next up we’re going to be discussing the change regarding point values
in the strike or tree column on the scorecard. There’s going to be a change in Rule 6(y) to read: “If scorecard lacks point
values in the strike or tree columns, and after seeking additional information, the
event official cannot satisfactorily determine the accurate score, affected
dogs will be scratched.” This change will do away with automatically scratching a
dog when the returned scorecard lacks a value, whether it be plus/minus, circle,
delete in the strike or tree columns. – So with this change, you’ll no longer see
handlers scratched for it for the most part, but that does not mean that the event
official cannot scratch you if they cannot determine the accurate scoring of
it. So it’s still important and very important for the handler to make sure
they check their score, make sure everything’s right on before they sign
off and turn it in. It’s the easiest thing for a handler to do is to check
your scorecard, and don’t be that guy that always wants to blame the judge or
it’s somebody else should have made sure that was correct. The rules say it is the
handler’s responsibility check their scores before signing. It is one of the
easiest things you can do. Do it. – Now let’s discuss the newly updated
babbling rule. I’m gonna read it for you just so I don’t mess up like I in the
Advisor Column and leave a word out, so…. “If a question arises pertaining to a dog
babbling when declared struck, a vote shall determine the scoring of strike
points as follows: if the majority of the cast agrees that the dog was babbling,
strike points shall be minused; if the vote results in a tie ,strike points shall be
deleted; and if a majority of a cast agrees the dog was not babbling, strike
points shall remain assigned as called.” – This is kind of a big one, and one that does create some arguments in the woods, as
much as any situation probably, on the end of rules, is babbling. You’ll see that,
in the rules, there’s an asterisk next to the word “babbling.” Whenever there’s an
asterisk next to a word, that means we also have a definition in the rulebook.
The definition of it is: “A dog that is declared struck where no track is
evident.” One of the things that we deal with all the time in debates with this,
whether there’s an appeal on this or a dog got minused for babbling, what have you, is that:
“Prove it.” The judge does not have to prove it. It’s a judgement call. Should be a
solid judgment call based on experience, knowledge, houndsmanship.
Tthe other thing that we hear all the time is that the rules state that the
dog must carry a track out if it was declared struck in that first minute.
That is another registry’s rule, but not in UKC. There is no such thing like that.
It’s as simple as making a call, making a judgment call, that the dog has been
declared struck where no track is evident. Dog gets out a good ways, that’s
going to be hard for any judge to make that call. The most common time when it
happens is when you first cut dogs loose. Dogs take off loose barking,
babbling, and that are struck pretty quickly, but you probably see more dogs
getting away with babbling than they’re actually hit for it. Basically, the only
change to this rule is the judge still makes the call or not, and the only
time this comes up, or there’s- where this change comes into play, is if there is a
question by any other member of the cast, and if the question does arise, you must
ask it immediately. If you think a dog has been babbling, a call is not being
made, ask it immediately. If the judge does make the call, and you don’t agree with it,
there again, ask immediately. A tied vote will now result in deleted strike points, versus the old rule, where it took a majority
vote to overturn the judge’s call. Everything that we do in night hunts, as
far as the judges’ calls go, if there’s a question on it, it takes a majority to
overturn the judge’s call. This would be one of- it would be the only one where,
in the case where majority is not reached, in that case you would not
delete. Majority says the dog was not battling, dog retains its strike points. Majority says the dog is, in fact, babbling, then strike points are minused. – In this clip, we’re going to be discussing the new leash lock rules, and it’s
actually been passed to eliminate the leash lock rule all together unless all
dogs are declared treed and cast decides to move to a new location after all
trees have been scored. If a cast decides to move, hunt time shall be stopped while
walking to trees with dogs on the leash. Hunting time shall only be called
back in during shine time only. The one bullet point I have regarding the leash
lock rule is if dogs in the cast are struck or treed in, and after pulling
your dog off of a scored tree, you’ll have to wait for one of those dogs are
declared struck or treed in to open before you can release your dog in the
hunt, same as it has been. If no dogs are struck or treed in, your hound will be
immediately eligible for recast upon pulling it off the scored tree, which is
going to be a little bit different. Even if there’s another dog treed, or if all
dogs are treed, and you’re able to cut your hound loose and compete for it, for
another track entry there. Another thing we talk about is after pulling your
hound off a scored tree, if any or all dogs in the cast are declared treed, you
have the option to recast. So you have the option to leave your dog on the
leash and head to the other declared tree if you want, but you won’t be able
to cut your dog loose until the next opportunity arises, which would be after
scoring the next dog’s tree, or in the case where there’s more than one dog
declared treed out there, if one were to leave and another dog was still treed and
declared treed, you would have opportunity to leave the dog on the
leash at that point. Also, if no other dogs are declared treed after scoring
your tree, your dog must be released. Recast is mandatory in that situation. – I think that the biggest misconception about
this proposal that we saw a lot of people of talking about, having
conversations about, is that they still do have that option to recast that still
stays in. The rule itself is: “Eliminate leash lock rule altogether, unless all
dogs are declared treed and cast decides to move to a new location.”
Sometimes you do need to be able to get the dogs gathered up and move to a new
location. But whenever you’re deciding to move, the cast decides this. So we have all
dogs declared treed, or maybe one on leash or whatever, one just scored. After
scoring the first tree, when all other dogs are declared treed, if the
cast needs to move locations, at this point, point you would call timeout.
While the
scored dog is on the leash and while you’re heading to the next dog’s tree to
score, hunt time would only be running after that decision is made
during shine time only. So you have your first dog on leash, you’re going to your
second tree, you call timeout immediately while you’re walking so you’re not
taking away hunt time from these dogs. If a dog leaves its tree while the cast
en route with dogs in hand, time would need to be called back in and all
leashed dogs would need to be released at that time. And the other point is dogs
can only be scored out of order when all dogs are declared treed, handled, and the
cast needs to move to a new location. We have added a new section to Rule 11,
under Section 11, under Scoring Dogs, Section 11(a) is rules pertaining to
prior to arriving at the tree. Section (b) is after arriving at the tree. Section (c)
talks about split tree situations. And we’ve added another section (d) to rule 11,
or Section 11, and it has everything to do with the case. Basically. these recasting rules. And I think they’re very self-explanatory
and will help the hunters greatly the way we put it out under Section
11, Section 11(d), all about recasting. – In this video, we’re gonna actually be
discussing two rule changes. The first we’re going to get to is declaring dog struck
after the third bark. In a situation where dog is not declared struck on or
before the third bark, after one minute of being turned loose, judge shall ask
for a call, and the dog must be declared struck on the next bark or receive
available strike position minused and reassigned on the scorecard. On the
second offense, the judge will minus the available strike position and if the dog
is not declared struck on the next bark after the judge asks for a call, that dog
will be scratched. And on the third offense, that dog would just be scratched.
– This change is pretty straightforward. Basically what it does, instead of a
two-part deal the first time being minused, second time scratched, the first time is now a warning.
If the dog is not declared struck on that third bark, the judge is going to
ask for a call on that dog. If the handler calls his dog struck on the next
bark, being the fourth bark, then he will be issued a warning, but if he does not
call it on the next bark, let’s say it’s bark 5 or 6 or whatever, that warning is
no longer there for him. He’s going to get minused there. – And the next one we talk about is when
you call the wrong dog. On the first offense for calling the wrong dog,
it’s actually going to be a warning now. On your second offense, the dog is gonna
be minused your column strike points, and on the third offense, that dog is gonna be scratched.
– One of the reasons this one was, this rule was proposed, had to do
with kids’ hunts. Kids coming in and not being sure, maybe not knowing their dog that well,
not wanting to strike the wrong dog, or maybe inadvertently calling the wrong
dog. So as not to penalize them too hard. And I think it’s a good
rule to give them a warning on that first offense. – The last rule we’re going
to be discussing here is the new rule about being scratched for fighting. We’re
going to change the rule to scratch dogs for fighting or attempting to fight
during hunt time only and shall further include while dogs are off leash and
during any timeout periods during the hunt. This rule is going to prevent dogs from
being scratched on the leash or in the dog box. I just want to make sure you
guys know that any dog fights happening during timeouts or after the hunt while
dogs are still off the leash could still result in dogs being scratched. – The old rule was dogs could be scratched “under the authority of the judge.” Well, what is “under the authority of the judge”? The scorecard says as soon as the judge gets
the scorecard from the Master Houndsman at the club headquarters, and his authority
ceases he turns it in at the same place. So technically a dog could be scratched
on a parking lot, in a dog box… And it did happen sometimes.
Sometimes, unfortunately, guys would try to use that. And this eliminates all that.
Basically, a dog will only be scratched for fighting while they are off leash
and competing in the hunt. Now, one thing to be clear is that this does, in fact,
include timeout periods while they are off leash. They’re still not saved by
that just because they’re in a timeout. If they’re still off leash during
the hunt that is timed out, they can still be scratched for fighting. So let’s give a couple scenarios. And let’s just use two dogs for example’s sake.
Let’s say Dog A is at the tree, handled, is tied up, and you’re
shining the tree. While you’re shining the tree, here comes Dog B. He comes into tree. And let’s say for instance, in the first
example, let’s make it Dog B comes in, walks by Dog A, and it goes up to it, and
grabs Dog A that is on the leash. Here’s the question: can Dog B be scratched for
fighting with the dog that is on leash? The answer is: yes, he can. Dog B is, number
one, considered the aggressor. He’s the one that started the fight, he was seen
grabbing Dog A, so therefore he’s considered the aggressor. Number two, he’s
off leash, and therefore Dog B meets all requirements to be scratched for fighting. In scenario number two, let’s change it up just slightly. Again, we have Dog A,
who is tied at the tree and you’re shining his tree. Here comes Dog B, comes
in, walks by Dog A. The only difference in this scenario, let’s say Dog A grabs Dog B as it’s
walking by and pins it to the ground. Dog A is considered now the aggressor,
the one who started the fight. In this case, Dog A is considered the
aggressor, but he is on leash, so therefore Dog A does not meet the
requirement to be scratched for fighting. In this situation, why? Simple.
Because he was on leash. So that’s the point to make and keep in
mind with this rule change, is a dog that is on leash cannot be scratched from
fighting. It’s that simple. – I’d like to thank everybody for taking their time to watch
these clips of us tell you about the rule changes. Sometimes it’s a little bit
easier to talk to someone about it than to try to put it in writing, and for
people to interpret it in different ways. – For this rules change year, we have more
than we’ve ever had before, and we didn’t think we’d see this many passed, but I
can tell you, there’s a lot of people that are excited about these changes.
Some tend to think that it’s going to be a lot to keep up with. I really don’t
think so. The guys that are really into the nite hunts that take it seriously,
they’ll adapt to them very quickly. You can call us here at the office any time
you’d like to, email Trevor or I, email us with any questions you might have.
Any time you see us out at a hunt, somewhere at an event, don’t be
afraid to come up and ask us about any rules questions you might have. I’m one of those guys that
love rules discussions. It’s not much fun when somebody starts fussing and arguing
about this or that. We have procedures in place if you don’t agree with a call
that is being made. Follow those procedures and get your situation questioned,
take it back, and that’s what it’s there for. We do want to get it
right and that’s why you have those procedures in place. So exercise those.
No sense in getting mad about something. Here’s the thing to remember:
judges are often in a position where they have to make a call regardless.
Sometimes they’re not always sure. Problem is, they are required to make a
call, and sometimes they will make a call not even being quite sure. So you should also
keep that in mind because that’s when your right to question it comes into
play, and that’s why there’s a procedure. So follow those to get it. So enjoy the new rules and we hope you like them. They work well for everybody. – See you guys soon! [acoustic guitar music]

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  1. We hope you enjoy this detailed explanation of the rule changes! Additionally, we're excited to offer more video content in the future. 🙌 If you have any suggestions for coonhound and hunting videos you'd like to see from UKC, please feel free to let us know!

  2. I personally don’t agree with the fighting dog in your scenario dog a on the leash was the aggressor he still should be scratched.

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